Small power increase - W124 300D OM603.960

[speedy300dturbo]

Hello from California,

Unfortunately I do not speak Finnish, although I do listen to the Bomfunk MC's. Anyway, I am looking to get a small power increase from my W124 300D Turbo - at the moment I want to keep the stock turbocharger and stock exhaust system, and only do some slight modifications to the injection pump.

How much can the power be safely increased with a small intercooler and some adjustments of the full-load screw on the back of the pump? Has anyone tried using an intercooler from a Saab 900 or similar size? I don't want such a huge intercooler, because in California we need to keep the air-con.

Please forgive me - I'm sure this topic has been covered many times, but I cannot find a good online translation from Finnish to English!

[epk]

hi ,

as i remember, with original "pump elements" , you can achieve 180 hp, cooler would be good to add.

Beyond that, the original turbo has to be changed because it is quite small.


edit: if that is not enough, well over 400hp is bossible to get (some are going for >500hp ), with "some" modifications....

[Timo L.]

Hello from California...
How much can the power be safely increased with a small intercooler and some adjustments of the full-load screw on the back of the pump? Has anyone tried using an intercooler from a Saab 900 or similar size? I don't want such a huge intercooler, because in California we need to keep the air-con.

Hi Speedy, and welcome to Mersuforum!

It's nice to have participants also from across the big water.
I wonder is there a similar EGR-system in your car, as it is in European models? You can also do some modifications to that system, simply taking it out of use by stucking the vacuum line from turbocharger to EGR-valve with e.g. a piece of metal screw. The other thing to do is stucking the small "door" open in the air flow meter. I don't know the exact word for this part, but it's that aluminum box under the air filter case. With this your engine will not use exhaust gases the intake manifold will not be dirty of that oily stuff.

In my car, this action improved slightly the car's "awakening", when i pressed the pedal. But how about the exhaust regulations in California? Are they still so strict than in the 1970's-80's?

Don't worry about the size of the cooler and air-con, there is just enough space for both of them. In one case the original fan was replaced by two(?) electric fans, so the package of intercooler and radiators fit nicely in. The builder of this example is now on holiday, but I think he will answer you when he comes back.

But, tell us more about your car? MY, colour, pictures... ?

[Roisto]

as i remember, with original "pump elements" , you can achieve 180 hp, cooler would be good to add.

Beyond that, the original turbo has to be changed because it is quite small.

edit: if that is not enough, well over 400hp is bossible to get (some are going for >500hp ), with "some" modifications....

I think epk and Timo L. are talking about this project, which is maybe the best documented project in the forum (plenty of photos). As said, the owner has air-conditioning in his car so a big cooler is no "real" problem.

Regards,
Risto

[Mauri H.]

Hello Speedy

I just returned from Egypt yesterday, and so I was unable to answer earlier.

As other guys already told, I have air-conditioner in my car, and in the planning phase of this project it was causing problems. I still wanted to keep it, and so I decided to remove the original fan and move the radiators back as much as possible. I still managed to fit a very thin fan to the waterpump to help keep the temperature in order at the summertime. Original big electronic fan in front of AC cell is replaced by 2 smaller ones (10 inch diameter).

Now when I changed the 24 valve engine to my car, I replaced the original grinder with self made model which allowed me to use very big IC. Now all the 3 cells are in very tight package and there is better room for the fans.

If you browse through the topic Roisto linked here, you will find lots of pictures from my project. In page 53 there is a picture of my car without the front bumper, there you can see the new grinder behind the IC. Car is still under construction, and for excample those 2 electronic fans are missing (it is wintertime, so I will not need them for 6 months).

Sorry that the topic is so long.....

[speedy300dturbo]

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for the replies! My car is a 1987 300D Turbo. Here are some photos of my car:

http://w124.f0e.net/car1.jpg
http://w124.f0e.net/car2.jpg

The USA model OM603.960 engine has a very different exhaust manifold from the European model, as you can see in the photo below:



There is no turbocharger that is a bolt-on easy replacement, so I will keep the stock turbo. My goal is to increase HP to 170-180 without harm to the engine / transmission. My understanding so far, is that this can be done with:

1. Small intercooler (Saab 900 size?)
2. Adjustment of full-load screw to diesel injection pump (but by how much?)
3. Increase turbo boost (but how high?)

I have already disabled the EGR valve. Maybe after this small project, I will attempt to make this car into a "Superturbo".

[paloviita]

Looks familiar...

The U.S. model is different because of a trap oxidizer that was originally required by emission regulations in California. It tended to get plugged every 50000 miles or so and therefore was later replaced with a different set up (a recall).

I bought my -87 300DT from San Diego and another one from Orange County...

[Mauri H.]

Turbo boost increasement is not necessary, and with stock charger it causes too much stress to the engine as the exchaust pressure gets too high.

All you need is to add a good intercooler, most of the stock coolers are poor, it would be best to find a specially made one, which flows freely enough and has enough potential to cool the pressured air as down as possible. Cooler air compensates the need of increased boost pressure.

The best way to get most out of your injection pump would be to send it to good diesel mechanic, if possible. Of course you can also try to adjust it by your self, and that means opening the load screw as much as possible so that you can still maintain good idle speed and can close the back cover of injection pump.

[Daaz]

Hello from California,
Please forgive me - I'm sure this topic has been covered many times, but I cannot find a good online translation from Finnish to English!

Mersuforum.net seems to have gained international fame – mostly thanks to our turbo section. Could this be our new Nokia?

I just have to ask Speedy how he found the site. I don’t think Google gave us up, or did it?

And the online translators: don’t bother. Fenno-Uralic languages don’t bend to Indo-European ones without human help. Even if the words used here would be found in dictionaries, which they are not.

-Daaz

[nokileka]

My understanding so far, is that this can be done with:
..
2. Adjustment of full-load screw to diesel injection pump (but by how much?)

adjust the screw until "power smoke" is visible under full load acceleration

[speedy300dturbo]

Hello from California,
Please forgive me - I'm sure this topic has been covered many times, but I cannot find a good online translation from Finnish to English!

Mersuforum.net seems to have gained international fame – mostly thanks to our turbo section. Could this be our new Nokia?

I just have to ask Speedy how he found the site. I don’t think Google gave us up, or did it?

-Daaz

I think someone from the US diesel forum on Mercedesshop.com posted a link to some of the threads here. The diesel crew in the US is very interested in your projects and many of us would love to squeeze out more power from our diesels, although the turbo OM617 is more common than the turbo OM603, which was only available in the US from 1986-1987.

[Timo L.]

...than the turbo OM603, which was only available in the US from 1986-1987.

...If you don't count 300 SDL/350 SD/L's. Although I wouldn't tune the latter one up at all .

[markku]

I think someone from the US diesel forum on Mercedesshop.com posted a link to some of the threads here. The diesel crew in the US is very interested in your projects and many of us would love to squeeze out more power from our diesels.

Might have been me: http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/s ... ght=markku

Still cant accept the comment of Leo in the said thread:

Talking about the fastest MBZ diesel is a lot like discussing the tallest midget.

[speedy300dturbo]

...If you don't count 300 SDL/350 SD/L's. Although I wouldn't tune the latter one up at all .

Oh yes, I forgot about the 350... the disaster motor. Anyway, back to the topic of intercooling...

So far I've only heard of one person intercooling an OM617 in the US. You can read about and see photos of his project here:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/s ... p3?t=46703

However, he refused to post any data regarding power or acceleration gains, and no one is sure why. Right now my 300DT will do 0-62.5mph (0-100kmh) in approximately 10 seconds. I hope that with 170-180bhp, that I can drop that to 8 or more optimistically, 7 seconds.

[Mauri H.]

Right now my 300DT will do 0-62.5mph (0-100kmh) in approximately 10 seconds. I hope that with 170-180bhp, that I can drop that to 8 or more optimistically, 7 seconds.

Not possible, Turbo lag is taking some time at the begining, you need more power to make 8 - 7 seconds. But with my car (when it was original, only injection pump was adjusted for maximum) I was able to race equally with for excample 300 SE even with bigger load in my car.

[enska]

My friend is planing to tune up that disaster 350 dt, now im wondering wich part will blow up first



Planing is planing...

[vesapa]

i have just like you car! its travel hear in new york. it is same model -87 and seat and door are black leather. its your drivinglamps original? euromodels have turbos intakehole in right "mudcover":) i have not that,but it is good place turbos take to air in.i change in my car that like mudcover.have you drive max speed your car? how much is take? my car about 200km/h. i add wastegate little extra spring and now boost is 1.1bar and i delete overboost ventile and now 1.1bar is bossible.

[eerola]

...Maybe after this small project, I will attempt to make this car into a "Superturbo".

Big Time! A MB SuperTurbo in the USA!

If you decide to build a The First Real SuperTurbo in the USA, what is your plan to pass the California State Inspection? I thought California is even stricter in emissions than Texas! Or have you found a way to register your vehicle in the same category with Peterbuilts, where they are less picky in terms of emissions?

Boy I wish they'd start offering more CDIs here... <Sniff>

When's the first Mersuforum USA Meet!

[speedy300dturbo]

No smog inspection is required for 1987 diesels... so a SuperTurbo would be legal. They are strict here, but this concerns mostly gasoline vehicles.

It's just expensive to get the work done in the US. A high quality custom fabrication of intake and exhaust manifolds will be around $1000, not to mention the other things needed, (larger delivery valves in the injection pump) and a custom exhaust system. I should probably start making make friends with some local diesel and tuning shops.

That's why at the moment, I only want a small power increase. I think that should satisfy me for a while.

[Zeitgeist]

Hello from across the pond! Like Speedy, I must apologize for my embarassing failure to speak Finnish, but I hope you'll forgive me

I've been following your amazing advancements in OM602/603/606 technology, and I can say that the Finns have really become diesel legends here in the states.. In North America we're way behind you folks, and many MB owners don't think turbodiesels can or should be modified differently than what the factory authorized when the car was built. Thankfully, you guys have proven that to be false.

I'd love to recreate a more modest version of your super turbos with my '87 300TD w/OM603. I'd like to begin in phases, with phase I as a small intercooler from a sidemount Saab 900 turbo and an increase in the injection pump full load volume. Phase II would add a two stage water injection system to further increase charge density and lower EGTs. Phase III...larger front mount intercooler?

Have any of you experimented with water injection like that found at www.aquamist.co.uk and other vendors?

Thanks for all the great information and inspiration you guys provide!

Casey

'87 300 TD (205k)
Olympia, WA (USA)

[Mauri H.]

Stock injection pump can only deliver output around 180 hp. So phase 2 and 3 are unnecessary if you don't get any bigger elements to the pump.

Increasing the boost or decreasing the temperature of the air doesn't help if you cannot deliver any more fuel to the engine. That is why modified pumps are the most important part of Superturbo, pump is the heart of the engine.

Getting your injection pump modified can be difficult in US, and sending it here is expensive, but I would still do it if I was you. We have amazing diesel repair shop here called Mynä Diesel, they have delivered our greatest Tractor Pulling - folks their pumps for ages, and they also have invented the Superturbopumps. The owner also has OM606 Superturbo in W210 body.

After modifications of pump, it is necessary to change the tiny stock turbo into a bigger one, as you will othervise melt the engine down in a short time. Bigger turbo is needed because of great capasity of exchaus gas, smaller turbo is like a bottleneck and woun't let the engine breathe, this increases the pressure of exchaus gas and heats up the engine real fast.

Effective intercooler is then also needed, because in order to make good hp:s, you need to inject great mount of fuel into the cylinders, and so you need enough oxygen to burn it. Boost has to be built up and so the pressed air is getting hotter, to prevent cylinder head failure the air needs to be cooled down, and for that you need GOOD intercooler. Do not use any stock coolers from Saabs or any other cars. Order a good one from some turboshop.

[speedy300dturbo]

Hi Mauri,

The diesel pump shops around here aren't familiar with modifying Mercedes Benz pumps for more 3-400bhp, so if I were to consider redoing the pump, sending it to Mynä Diesel is probably the way to go. How much does that type of work cost?

Also, how much does it cost (in Finland) to custom-fabricate a good exhaust manifold in order to hold the bigger turbo?

[Mauri H.]

I have sent a private message for you, you can read it from top of the screen whenre it says "Sinulla on 1 uusi viesti"

[Mauri H.]

I have moved this to English forum, as it better belongs there.

[eerola]

speedy300dturbo & Zeitgeist,

I know a competent technician here in DFW area. He is one of those guys, who do not work with cars, because he has to. But because he loves to! If you are interested in this, I can talk to him after Thanksgiving, and see if he is interested in a diesel customization project. He is retired, but having a challenging project and entusiastic customer, might motivate him enough Please pm your contact details to me.

[Zeitgeist]

Stock injection pump can only deliver output around 180 hp. So phase 2 and 3 are unnecessary if you don't get any bigger elements to the pump.

Increasing the boost or decreasing the temperature of the air doesn't help if you cannot deliver any more fuel to the engine. That is why modified pumps are the most important part of Superturbo, pump is the heart of the engine.

After modifications of pump, it is necessary to change the tiny stock turbo into a bigger one, as you will othervise melt the engine down in a short time. Bigger turbo is needed because of great capasity of exchaus gas, smaller turbo is like a bottleneck and woun't let the engine breathe, this increases the pressure of exchaus gas and heats up the engine real fast.

Effective intercooler is then also needed, because in order to make good hp:s, you need to inject great mount of fuel into the cylinders, and so you need enough oxygen to burn it. Boost has to be built up and so the pressed air is getting hotter, to prevent cylinder head failure the air needs to be cooled down, and for that you need GOOD intercooler. Do not use any stock coolers from Saabs or any other cars. Order a good one from some turboshop.

Speaking of cylinder head failure, here in the states a majority of the early run of OM603 engines suffered from head cracks. How have you folks dealt with this problem when modifying your engines? Do you know if the larger IP elements are derived from big truck pumps or if they're custom made specifically for the MB? Are any of the Super Turbo engines using water injection to augment charge air cooling? Over here we see some hot ambient air temps so cooling the charge air is important for both HP, reduced EGT's and engine longevity, hence my interest in both water injection and intercooling. At this point I'm just looking to maximize the stock potential of the IP, but I am intrigued with building a Super Turbo project in the future

Thanks again, you guys really inspire us over here!

Casey

[AMG Dave]

Hi everyone,

Greetings from across the pond in USA! And believe me, you Super Turbo owners are becoming legends over here. I'm still in awe of what you have accomplished...!

Anyway, I'm one of the other guys (along with Aaron and Casey) interested in getting more power from my 603. I post on the other two USA forums under the usernames 'gsxr' and 'Dave M.', btw. I first got the idea for intercooling when somone sent me a link to Mosselman Turbo's website. Mosselman offers a bolt-on intercooler kit for the 124.133 good for a claimed 20% power increase (148hp --> 175hp). The problem is, his kit won't fit USA engines due to the different manifolds without some custom fabrication. And the cost was quite high ($1400+ EUR, ~$2000 USD!).

But anyway, to add to what Casey and Aaron have already asked:

1) Is it safe to turn up the full-load fuel on a stock engine, say 1/4 or 1/2 turn, with NO intercooler or water injection? Or would that create high EGT's and risk engine damage?

2) Is there any loss in MPG with the full-load fuel quantity increased?

Anyway, I don't yet have my website created, but I have lots of photos of my cars & upgrade projects. They are located here. I have taken my stock 300D to the local dragstrip, it runs 17.5 seconds @ 80mph in the 1/4 mile - check out the 'dragstrip' directory:

http://www.superturbos.com/images/

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm a little curious if any of you have done brake, differential, or suspension upgrades to go along with you extra power. I'm planning on installing 500E brakes on my car. I'd love to get a limited-slip differential but that's a future project... one thing at a time. Maybe I'll start a new topic on that later!


Best regards,

[Mauri H.]

Hi guys,

No, we don't use water injection, it is not needed with these special made IC:s we use, for excample my IC could be half of its current size and it would work as well as this one does. So there is some potential left.

I drove my car for a year with pump adjusted to maximum, and broke the cylinder head. When you increase the ammount of injected fuel you will also increase the temperature on the cylinder. To cool it down you need to add some extra oxygen, and that can be done by increasing boost. But doing that you dramatically raise the temperature if intake air and it 1. has less oxygen and 2. destroys your cylinder head and possibly something else. So you need good IC.

So my point is that if you live in a warm place, I wouldn't drive the car with pump adjusted to max without good IC.

You can get good 180 hp out of the engine with standard boost and good IC without fear about braking the cylinder head. Also consumption is getting better.

Those bigger elements are specially made for MB:s, at least those one most of us are using.

If you are really interested in building a Super-Turbo, don't hesitate to contact me, I can help you getting all the necessary parts, it is not rocket science, it's just diesel

[Henri Junkkala]

Hi guys,

I sure as heck don't drive a superturbo - but a 400,000 miles driven non-turbodiesel. Having speculated on the issue and followed the superturbos evolve both in the forum and in real life, I cannot help but to pitch in this conversation.

I don't see how you could waste thousands of your hard-earned greenbacks on just a custom manifold unless you want Jesse James to build it. Once your engine is turbocharged you can use a very basic square "boost gathering box" to wich the stock intake manifolds tubes are welded on. This can be built by anybody who is any good at welding and it will cost you a case of beer (well, beer is expensive here) or perhaps 50-100$ or so. Pressure tubes don't cost much and then all you need is the actual intercooler.
Here's some pics of a square box on a carburettor installation. Remove the carb and you have the diesel model. Easy as a pie... click for some pics

I'm sure the guys at Mersuforum that manufacture these intercoolers would absolutely love to sell you a few custom-made intercoolers for a very affordable price - we're not talking thousands in either currency. Even though the almighty dollar is currently anything but almighty (1,32 exchange, euro has never been this strong comapared to US$) it will still be a good deal. And shipping a light aluminium (is it?) intercooler doesn't cost much.

The plus of this system is that when eventually you WILL later want to build an actual superturbo, you already have a custom intake system. Not that you wouldn't still custom exhaust headers, custom exhaust pipes, huge turbo from a semi truck and to have your diesel pump rebuilt with larger elements - but at least your cooler is already up to the task and your intake is already custom built...

Tuning your car is a hobby that is as addictive as crack cocaine and it has a tendency to take all your time and money in a very similar manner. Unlike drugs, tuning up a Merc is really worth it, though

Good luck guys and show those "import racing" rice rockets what a diesel Merc can REALLY do

Henkka
a former Nebraskan

ps: Of course you could go to a salvage yard (junkyard, scrapyard, chop shop, whatever) and pick up a stock manifold (to use when having your custom manifold built) AND a spare diesel pump that you can ship over here, for instance to the famous Mynä Diesel, to be rebuilt. And maybe pick up a turbo from a Cummins semi or something...

Then you can still drive your car while the parts are being worked on.

[jzaroh]

Hi there. Another Yank, here.

I am the proud owner of two 603 engines, one with the dreaded 3.5 liter. A 300SDL, and a 350SD. If you guys are over at mercedesshop.com I'm under the handle "DslBnz".

There still are a lot of skeptics when it comes to diesel power. There is a very reputable "Dieseling Doktor" over there that seems to be convinced that any greater than factory specs is asking for trouble.

Question. When you say "180 hp" does that equate to rear wheel HP or SAE net? Our diesels produce 148 SAE net bhp @ 4600 from the factory. I feel that it is the torque of main concern. I like acceleration thus, torque application. I feel my 3.0 liter 603 has great power past 3800 until the governor kicks in and starts limiting boost(about 4.9K - 5K)

Does that mean with the 606 you will try to get 500 RWHP? That would be awesome.

A calculator for many things related to drag performance.

http://www.prestage.com Go to car math, then car math calculators. The calculators work better than the equivalent of chicken scratch to parchment..

And as for performance modifications on the 350, uh, I kind of have a problem in cylinder #1. Pretty bad loss of compression, and an embarrissingly throbbing idle with deep injector knock(that's what it sounds like), and smoke enough to make the Freightliners look frugal scaling a 30% incline. I have a feeling that one day, probably in the next couple of months, the engine may go south....This is the second engine from Mercedes, though, and I have not heard of the later ones going down yet. But I will make it known if mine does.

Looking forward to the continued workings of the future: Chronicles of the Master Diesel Enthusiast. The more videos you post the better. The same is true for pictures.

Have a great day,

-Justin[/url]